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Im thinking after the residents of Penobsquis had their inquiry with the mining act officials on March 14th that PCS would realize this issue isnt going away , why wouldnt they proceed with a buyout for the properties affected at fair valued rates and be done with it? if PCS were a concerned company for making better community neighbors,then dont be ignoring the issues, we were all brought up to be good citizens and get along. I wonder why those headstones in the Penobsquis grave site keep moving around, is it the movement from the industry activity or is it our forefathers/mothers turning in their graves.
Under the ‘Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Part 1 of the Constitution Act 1982(80), Guarantee of Rights and Freedoms: Fundamental Freedoms 2 b) freedom of thought,belief,opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and any other media of communication.”
The Charter also states under the Enforcement Act 24-1 “Anyone whose rights or freedoms, as guaranteed by this charter, have been infringed or denied may apply to a court fo competent jurisdiction to obtain such remedy as the court considers appropriate and just in the circumstances”
I think Mr. Zed, PCS, and the Mining Commissioner need a refresher course on what is legal in Canada. Is is possible they not have VETS for Father!
Shame Shame SHAME!!!!
The PCS CEO got 13 million in 2009 for a bonus, Bonus! Can you imagine, what HE could have done with that money instead of filling his own pocket. He or PCS could have looked after everyone in Penobsquis and still had money left over.
But alas Corporations protect thier Shareholders NOT the community they despoil.
That is my opinion, which I am guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Amen…….
Funny, when I put my name in google alerts I find a person who does great things for animals and people. To the ‘other’ HLMccabe’ on this planet- thank you!
I have just created an anti Hydro Fracking Facebook page. I am not very familiar with this Facebook stuff, so I have just created a simple, although somewhat lengthy info page. If you want to stop Hydro Fracking in NB, then it is worth the read. The technique that I outline should suffice to kill Hydro Fracking in the province. We can gang up on the politicians and bring them back into line, by taking away their money and cutting up their credit cards. You have to be logged in to Facebook to actually see the page. Please feel free to pass this on to anyone else who is interested in protecting our water.
If much of the Penobsquis community used the technique that I outline, then the NB government would probably change their tune about your water loss.
I was just checking out your web site. It is a very nice presentation of the facts of the Penobsquis water problem. Is there any way I could be of help in some way?
I wandered this area as a boy. To see the destruction being wreaked upon it lies heavy on my heart. What is the permanent netback to the people of this community for all this misery? When the resources have been grabbed and squandered what will be left? To find the answer visit Frackville Pa., Clinchburg Tenn., and dozens of small towns in West Va. The future is in agriculture and renewable industry. It is false economy to destroy the earth for transitory economic gain, the profits from which leave the area, never to return. Penobsquis needs an Erin Brockovitch and perhaps one has been found. I will be at the protests in Sussex tomorrow. Never, never, give up until justice is done!!!!!
I do not live in New Brunswick but have visited the Penobsquis/Sussex area for many years as my wife is originally from the area. I have greatly enjoyed travelling around the Bay of Fundy in particular but have been pretty disgusted with the Penobsquis valley since I started visiting the area 25 years ago. People seem to have some uptopian view that the area was covered with picturesque farms and that everybody worked and that life was good.
Well even back in the early 1980′s I thought that the area was a dump. Small, dirty farms with manure piles seeping into the streams, hog smell for miles around, and gravel pits as far as the eye could see. Numerous run down houses with unkempt yards, cars with no mufflers, etc. And as for the people, I met many good very good people on my visits there, but also quiet a few of the drinking, pogey crowd.
In the past 25 years, what has improved? More hog smell, less farms, houses in a better state of repair in general. Now 2 potash mines, numerous gas pads, and even more gravel pits. People driving quads and motorcycles up and down the highway at high speed, no licence, no helmet or regard for safety. I tell my western friends that it is like an Indian reserve. The gravel pits themselves are real eyesores and it makes me laugh to see the greed of a people who dig up their great grandfather’s farm to see a measly $20,000 worth of gravel. Why? The pits themselves are environment hazards as I have seen oil spills and oil rags. This contamination easily leaches into the groundwater.
As for the people 25 years later, farming is not the employer it once was but mining has been a backbone of the local economy for over 3 decades.
`I have done quite a bit of reading and talked to several locals about your water woes and other claims. I think that many good points are made but many very weak claims have been made along with considerable exaggeration, and twisting, embellishment of the true facts by the CCP. I think that the people of Penobsquis deserve clarity and truthfullness. For example, is the true number of households whose wells went dry actually 60? There may be 60 households on the waterline but I do not think that even half of them had their wells go dry. Even 25 years ago, I used to hear about water woes along the 114 corridor. Generally poor quality, rusty water was common in many wells. Several households had to drill second, deeper wells even years ago. Any statement saying that water woes started when seismic work started is not true.
I learned years ago not to make an opinion until studying the facts and I feel this is lacking here. However as an outsider looking in, this almost appears to be two groups of liars. One being PCS who for years has pumped away water while denying any responsibility and the other group being CCP making gross statements like they were forced against their will to sign onto the waterline. Who forced them? Were guns used?
As for the gas drilling the CCP uses that stupid one sided movie “gasland” as part of their fearmongering campaign. Do you know how many oil and gas wells have been drilled in Alberta alone in the last 100 years? Try about 1,000,000. You would think that the whole province would be a toxic dump.
I really urge the citizens of Penobsquis to get off their asses, put down the smoke and beer, turn off American Idol, and do some independant research of their own. Do not take the CCP propaganda as being completely truthful but do not believe all the PCS says as well. I am honestly in the middle here and and more than willing to discuss groundwater engineering, oil and gas drilling, and mining with anyone as I have a few decades of experience.
As a final note you should be proud to have a clean reliable water system. Most people in the country pay for water. I guarantee that this supply is much better quality/safer water than the majority of wells that it replaced. As for the gentleman who did not sign on and complained that he paid taxes for 25 years and that should be enough, I say to him that I have paid taxes for 50 years and continue to do. I am sure that some of my tax money made it out your way.
To the author of “Penobsquis – an eyesore!”
I’ve lived in Southeastern New Brunswick all my life and visited Sussex a hundred times and I have never considered it an eyesore. Your contempt for the people of Penobsquis is quite evident and taints your perspective of the water problems. You should follow your own advice and “not make an opinion until studying the facts”. Rich or poor, drunk or sober, if an industry comes in a ruins your water there should be compensation, not a monthly bill. The folks in Penobsquis deserve better.
Thanks Susan, I find comments like eyesores discouraging. He says he has been coming to Penobsquis for 25 years – so well after the mine started, and all the miners that they brought in. The community had changed before ‘eyesore’ saw it.
To clarify what he says:
There were over 60 wells lost – and the gov’t has inspected all those to ‘prove’ they were lost.
There are over 100 homes on the water system. But they use only 50% of the water – industry uses the other 50% of this taxpayer funded system.
Water woes definitely started when seismic and other work started. I personally lost my water when they were fracking less than 1km from my home, 4 others lost their wells within days of mine. Certainly there were people east of the Loop that had poor water, but even they had their wells go dry. I had excellent water before – now I can’t drink the stuff out of the municipal system.
I will glady take up “Eyesore” or anyone else who wants to know the ‘facts’. The facts are very telling, the residents lost their water from an aquifer between them and the mine, They are experiencing subsidence and horizontal displacement (even the mine isn’t denying this). The residents near the grouting station are experiencing dust, noise, and light pollution. Residents due feel property values have decreased by having subsidence monitoring equipment next to or near their homes. In addition to PotashCorp’s drilling rigs.
As to why some in the community want to blame those with damage that are trying to compensation – I don’t know. I have no explanation. To me it is like having someone have their house burn down, due to no fault of their own, and their neighbor standing up and saying the insurance company shouldn’t pay them.
You are a perfect example that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I will not justify your uneducated and ignorant insults with a response.
Dai Williams, I am sorry that you feel insulted by my previous post. However I beg to differ when you say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I think a little knowledge is a good thing and a lot of knowledge is a great thing. Perhaps you missed my point when I urged the local citizenry to perhaps do a bit of individual research and to do not draw conclusions without any facts. For example I laughed out loud when a friend told me that everyone scrambled out to the WI Hall after a rain to see the new sink hole. Fingers were pointed at the mine, rumours spread like wildfire, press alerted, later only to find out that an old tank had collapsed.
The locals need to stop acting like it is the middle ages and focus on the science and facts of the situation. Do not believe everything that the CCP has said as a large portion is based upon conjecture. Believe me, good science is your friend here, not your foe. You are wasting time with this court case with a handful of sob stories and need to focus more upon the science of cause and effect. Perhaps after this case, I could encourage a couple of other lawsuits with one against the farmers of the area for water, air, and noise pollution and a similar lawsuit against the gravel industry for water, air, and noise pollution, as well spoiling the view, tourism detriment, etc. Of course you would not encourage that because many locals have profited by these “industries”. Even Mrs. Norrad could be the target of such a lawsuit as with her farm with an open manure pile sitting on a river bank, I am sure 50 years of putrid, nitrate rich runoff probably occurred.
Anyways, like I said previously, I am not really taking sides here. To me, with education and experience in related industries, what has happened here is quite simple. My professional designation however does not allow me to state an opinion here however.
As for my “uneducated and ignorant insults”, how do you call me uneducated? I am willing to compare my credentials with you or anyone else. As for ignorant insults, tell me one statement I said which is incorrect. I am not politically correct and tend to call it as I see it. Penobsquis is an eyesore.
To Penobsquis- an eyesore. It was brought to my attention that I should look more closely at your post. I started it once but didn’t bother to finish it. Well, I guess I should have. My farm? An open manure pile sitting on a river bank? I live on less than an acre about 2 km from a river so it would have to be one hellava big pile. Get your facts straight, especially with something as serious as naming me in a law suit. Shame on you.
I would like to address some of the issues from “Penobsquis…and eyesore.”
You have definitely been misinformed – there has been government documented loss of more than 60 wells and springs. More than 100 homes are connected to the system….PotashCorp uses approximately half of the water from the taxpayer constructed system.
You say you want to discuss things – and suggest you have some technical knowledge – I say bring it on. They technical arguments are all ‘no-brainers’.
There is no exageration on the part of the CCP – in fact we have been so cautious we understate the issues.
There were some homes that previously had bad water – particularly around where the Fire Station is now – but most homes had good water.
Come on a ‘tour’ of Penobsquis – come and see the damage. Some from the east end of the community have no idea of what is happening on our end – and have no willingness to consider that our experience is different from theirs.
Here is some of the information the group has depended on, cut and pasted from another place. If you need technical interpretation please note it on here. Certainly more information will be brought out over time as it is released through the hearings.
1997 – Brian David Singleton’s master thesis report speaks of the horizontal movement of the ground in addition to the vertical subsidence.
1997 Chrzanowski’s Monahan Roulston
1998 Chrzanowski’s Forrester
2003 Chrzanowski’s Massiera Source Aquifer thought to be above 150m
2005 Engineering Geology Journal Article
2006 The Golder Report
Beddoes starting at page 127
“The effects of measured and future mining induced displacement, caused as a normal consequence of the mining operation, are examined in relationship to the stability of the pipelines.”
“The maximum accumulated displacement monitored along the SW-NE section is about 360mm, while along D-D section this value reaches 380mm.” (1989-2005)
2008 Chrzanowski’s research
2008 UNB Study to PotashCorp
4.1 Oberserved Vertical Displacement
(2) The subsidence above large f’tions(?) significant accelerations occurring in 2000 and in 2003. The maximum total accumulated subsidence over the secondary subsidence basin has reached about .65m (pt C0) between 1995 and 2008. The maximum subsidence rate (eg pts C0 and CZ in Fig 2.2) reached over 100mm/yr in 2002/03 followed by de-acceleration in 2003/04. Over the past 5 years (2003-2008) the rate of subsidence in the secondary subsidence basin has stabilized at about 40mm/yr. As a result since 2003 the subsidence rates in both primary and secondary subsidence are practically the same. This can be considered a very important finding.”
4.2 Re: Observed Horizontal Displacement
The following conclusions may be drawn from the horizontal displacement surveys.
(1) Generally the accumulated horizontal movements of the monitoring points are larger than expected. A number of stations have horizontal movement equal to or greater than their subsidence. The accumulated horizontal displacements reached over 0.5m (eg pt C0) since 1997.
The directions of the horizontal displacements in the area of the secondary subsidence also do not follow the expected pattern. The points still show movements towards the excavated area rather than towards the center of the secondary basin.”
It looks to me that there is a concentrated effort by those that work at or profit from the mine to mislead people themselves. If you live in an area of Penobsquis that doesn’t have damage; congratulations. What benefit are you getting by speaking against those that do have damage?
I am very conserned about what is happening in yours village. Here in Dauversière a small village north off Bathurst the compagny Castel Resourses is planning to open a gold mine not more than 500 meters from ours village .The mine is gone to be a open pit type of 500 to 600 ft deep. We are pretty sure that they gone to drain our wells.
We are gone to e expose to high noise and lot off dust. A comity as been form to try to
struggle again that projet. An environemantal study is gooing on now and we will have an answer pretty soon . The name of the projet is Elmtree Gold Mine.
Whish you good luck.
Edgar Boudreau Dauversière N.B.
We are aware of the proposed Elmtree Gold Mine for your area. I don’t know details. If you would like to have a tour of our area, and would like to meet with us to discuss our experiences – please feel free to contact us at firstname.lastname@example.org We would love to be able to show you and talk to you.
It is a shame what has happened in Penobsquis. Really quite shameful for all of New Brunswick. The Province of New Brunswick says it would like to have frank and open discussions about shale gas development. Until there is justice done for the people of Penobsquis and also assurances that the government will follow the intent of its own legislation which includes not placing wells on the flood plain of a river, no community will ever trust any further development whether it is shale gas, potash or any other industrial process which places communities and the environment at risk.
Visit http://www.operationmaple.com/videos/word-on-the-street/the-death-of-a-community and see what the Occupy Maple ‘movement’ has done for Cape Breton. You need to get on board with something similar to bring your cause to the public’s eye. Relying on current Mainstream Media to do it for you is a lost cause. They are part of the 1% that perpetuates the destruction of communities.
Looks like money wins over peoples lives if our government won’t help we will help our selves we are the ones who put them in office it’s like that old saying what goes around comes around election time will be coming up so guess what they don’t have my vote it is really depressing not knowing whether your home will be standing from one day to the nexted.